Avoiding Loud Restaurants, Sound Absorption vs Sound Masking, and Choosing the Right Music Source.
On today's episode of The Restaurant Realty in 10 host, Michael Carro, is joined by Will Shaw of Integrated Surroundings.
Episode Highlights:
How to Balance the Sound Floor of Your Restaurant
When is Pink Noise Effective
Why the Wrong Music Source Could Cost a Whole Lot More Than You May Think ($20,000 more in some cases!)
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Michael Carro :
Welcome to The Restaurant Realty in 10. 10 minutes of uncensored straight talk for restaurant entrepreneurs. Twice weekly The Restaurant Realty in 10 dives into restaurant operations, facilities, real estate, and investments. Welcome to The Restaurant Realty in 10. This is your host Michael Carro. And today we're joined by Will Shaw with Integrated Surroundings. And we're going to dive into your speaker system and sound within your restaurant. Will Shaw welcome to the program!
Will Shaw :
Mike, thanks for having me today, man.
Michael Carro :
Well, let's start off by telling everybody what Integrated Surroundings is, and how long you've been in business and things of that nature.
Will Shaw :
Sure. So integrated say audio video design firm and we've been in business for 12 years. Personally, I've been a design engineer for 15 years in this industry. And I've done everything from churches, stadiums, large houses, big restaurants, sports bars, pretty much everything man.
Michael Carro :
Fantastic. So when a restaurant owner is about to launch their restaurant at what phase would they call in the audio engineer, Integrated Surroundings to come in and do a, I don't know, I guess a layout.
Will Shaw :
For a preliminary assessment it would be good as they start the design process with their architect. So if we could come in, review the plans with them, look at the layout of the spaces that gives us an opportunity to identify, you know, the aesthetics of the speakers, potential acoustic treatments, you know, that we can factor into the decor. Equipment rooms, or that have power, ventilation, all that fun stuff. Whereas if it's an afterthought, you got to find space for those things, you got to kind of find things that work within the space instead of finding the right things for the space. Right. So the earlier better I guess.
Michael Carro :
Okay, so the earlier the better. Does the type of restaurant indicate how you will do a layout? Give me an example between a sports bar versus maybe a high end restaurant that may be serving a completely different crowd and of course, different entertainment value?
Will Shaw :
Yeah, sure. So I mean, audio is an important part of any of those environments. But you know, those environments are going to need different levels of audio, different types of audio, you know, different types of speakers. You know, sports bar is going to need a lot more speakers than, a small, quaint, nice high end restaurant. So we try to kind of factor that in when we make the decisions with the owner as far as what they need.
Michael Carro :
So let's dive into each specific category. Let's just pick a nice restaurant because you know, the AV package for a sports bar is vastly different than the majority of other restaurants. So let's stick with a more normal restaurant. Let's take a casual theme restaurant, catering to families, what might we expect to find in that type of environment?
Will Shaw :
So those environments are typically just like background audio. Not something that stands out above conversations or that you really need to even hear or discern exactly what song it is or what artist or the vocals, you just kind of need that noise to fill the space. So typically, it's a lot less expensive to deploy something like that. It's a lot less critical as far as cost of the speaker and aesthetics, typically, you just need good coverage and balanced audio.
Michael Carro :
So let's talk about those restaurants that call you after they're open. And their audio just isn't right. Or maybe they don't have any what mistakes Do you see most individual owners make when they don't invite you into the process early?
Will Shaw :
Yeah. So if we rewind, and we're not actually involved early on with the architects and everything, you know, like I mentioned earlier, things are more of an afterthought. So speakers had to be placed, maybe around light fixtures where they don't offer good coverage, or they don't have enough speakers or the budget wasn't there. And so now they don't have the right amount of speakers, right. So typically, we see owners make their mistakes by not putting thought into this category when it's a very important part of the environment. So when we have to come back in typically there's stuff there that's not appropriate that can't be used, right. So we all have to supplement. We have to rewire spaces, which is typically messy, you know, in a finished environment. We have to add speakers, we have to assess the environment at that point. And then we kind of have to build around what's there, which is, you know, pretty challenging. And it's really honestly, it's costly for the owner because they've made an initial investment in something that's not functional or practical for the space. Now they have to reinvest in doing it the right way, when they could have just done it initially from the start and had a much better experience.
Michael Carro :
So let's take a restaurant, let's say a restaurant was in business for the past 10 years, and another restaurant decides we're going to take over that space. So it's a second generation restaurant space, somebody else takes it in the different finish schedule that the new group may have maybe vastly different. Even though there is a sound system and let's say it was done correctly 10-15 years ago, but the new owner is doing a completely different finished schedule. Maybe they have more hard items, more hard surfaces, where you know, sound is bouncing, how do you go in and correct those situations.
Will Shaw :
So typically, we would meet with the owner, determine their needs. And we would evaluate the space for acoustics or what the existing infrastructure is what the existing speakers are. And then we would work to have all that tailored to the new owners needs. So if we go into an existing space like that, and we understand what the new owner is going to need, we come in, we take a microphone, we measure the space, measure the acoustics, look at the placement, and we can actually map out in software, we can look at reverberation sound waves, what we need to add acoustically to treat the space and then what we need for additional speakers or what we can get out of what's there to accomplish their goal. But typically, you have to tailor it to the owner and their environment, what they're trying to create, you know what kind of an experience they're trying to create for their clients.
Michael Carro :
Okay. And you know, I was in Atlanta about a year and a half ago and walked into a place and found it very interesting that underneath all of their chairs, they had cut out that foam and, apparently they were having acoustic issues, because it was all hard wood floors and everything. And so I thought it was very creative that they installed that acoustic foam underneath every single chair to add that many more square feet. Is that a solution that you recommend? Or do you typically find other ways?
Will Shaw :
So I mean, there's a couple different ways to acoustically treat an environment, you have to think, you know, it's not just the sound waves that are created by a speaker. It's the sound that's created by voices and plates clanging and all these other things that kind of raise the noise floor of an environment. So we've all been into a space where you're trying to have a nice conversation with your wife, or you're trying to talk to your kids and you can't really hear them, you know, in your mind, it's just excessive noise, right? And it's aggravating and makes you want to leave, and it's uncomfortable. And so the way to really properly do that, and I've seen some, you know, very inventive ways to combat that, you know, like oyster shell bags, you know, hanging from the ceiling. Really, what you're trying to do is you're trying to break up the sound wave, you know, as I speak in a restaurant or as a speaker emits music, it's reflecting off everything around it, right? The longer it takes. makes that sound wave to dissipate, the worst the noise floor is in the space. So by putting things in the room like the foam pads, acoustic treatments, tapestries, oyster bags, whatever it may be, all you're really doing is absorbing those sound waves and keeping them from reflecting back into the space.
Michael Carro :
I see.
Will Shaw :
Which lowers the noise floor, which helps conversations help you hear the audio and makes for a more comfortable experience.
Michael Carro :
So we have a co workspace in town, that it's all hard surfaces, the noise level was terrible. And what they did was they installed a Bose system that I'm going to say absorb sound, but it really doesn't absorb it, it really just somehow knocks it out of the air. Can you describe what that system is? And is that an option for a restaurant?
Will Shaw :
Yep, that's called sound masking. And so essentially, what you're trying to do is you're adding speakers to a space and injecting what's called pink noise. So Pink Noise kind of sounds like an air conditioner running in the background or just kind of consistent level of noise, right?
Michael Carro :
Okay.
Will Shaw :
So sometimes, you know what that really does is kind of keeps you from hearing individual sounds because you're hearing the pink noise on top of everything else.
Michael Carro :
But that's not clanging noise.
Will Shaw :
Nah, it's almost like a air conditioning hum in the background that you know, if you really focused on it, you'd hear it. But if you weren't focused on it would just be a part of that environment.
Michael Carro :
Sure.
Will Shaw :
The problem with that is a minute ago, I spoke about the noise floor of us.
Michael Carro :
Yeah, well, that's a now we're just adding to it, right?
Will Shaw :
Yes. So you're raising the noise floor of the room, right. Instead of properly treating it and dissipating the sound waves, you're adding more sound waves to the space. So in a restaurant environment, what people have a tendency to do is try to then speak over the pink noise and the music and the background sound waves to then be heard. Right. So now you've got a space that is worse than when you started.
Michael Carro :
So you have a restaurant filled with Italians.
Will Shaw :
Yeah, absolutely.
Michael Carro :
All right, so now we've got beautiful fancy speakers that are properly placed. You've balanced out the noise competition. To where you can have an enjoyable conversation, if that's the type of restaurant you have. Now, we have to have a source of music. Some people will just turn on the local radio station and play that. And of course, comes with all the commercials, or maybe hit a Spotify and there are certain licensing requirements that restaurants are different than an individual. Can you walk us through that?
Will Shaw :
Yeah, sure. So I mean, the last thing you'd want to happen is have this nice system and not have a good balance source going into it, right. So in my mind, that means something that's licensed. So there's two companies out there that carry licensed commercial audio, and it's ASCAP and BMI, and those are the companies that actually police and pay the artist, you know, for what they've created. I've heard stories where they go into mom and pop restaurant and they were playing, you know, something from their phone that isn't licensed. And they've had you know, $20,000 fees sometimes.
Michael Carro :
Wow.
Will Shaw :
And they're based out of Nashville. So they do kind of travel all over the southeast and vacation, you know, around a lot of the places where we're at and so you do you have to kind of be cognizant of what's legal and what's not. And so by signing up with an ASCAP or BMI approved audio source like Mood, you know, there's a list of them online, you guarantee they don't have any licensing issues.
Michael Carro :
Well, and I think you touched on it, you can get the exact style of music, as opposed to it being kind of random, or your kid's playlist, you know, you have a very specific type of music that complements the mood you're trying to create.
Will Shaw :
And you have more control over it as well. By having a source like ASCAP or BMI. You know, those already filter out, you know, foul stuff, right. So you can match the genre of music to the space so the manager can select what they want to set the mood. They can make sure it's licensed so they don't have fines, and they can refine and select a playlist based around all that
Michael Carro :
Great advice! That's Will Shaw with Integrated Surroundings and Will we look forward to having you back. There's a couple other topics that we want to talk about including lighting, video and that system control center that every restaurant and bar needs. Thank you for listening to The Restaurant Realty in 10. If you're interested in restaurants whether operations, facilities,buying, leasing, or investment, The Restaurant Realty in 10 is for you. Please subscribe to this podcast and you can also visit TheRestaurantRealty.com for show notes, topics and additional information.